Etiquette: Must Engagement-Party Guests Be Invited to the Wedding?

Posted by Talley Sue Hohlfeld, Etiquette Expert

In response to one of our previous etiquette items (about a mother-of-the-bride with a limited guest list for a destination wedding, but lots of local friends and relatives), a reader told about her plans for her engagement party.

We are having a small wedding...but we still wanted to share it with everyone so we had a big but budget engagement party in our back yard. Then when people ask about the wedding we just say we are having something very small out of town.

That reminded me of a "squishy" part of engagement-party etiquette. Must you limit yourself to inviting only people that you are *sure* will be invited to the wedding itself?

The sources we rely on aren't always clear. Emily Post from 1991 says "The guest list is unlimited, but the majority of engagement parties are restricted to relatives and good friends. Occasionally—and it is not improper—the party is a huge open house or reception, including all the friends of both families."

However, I know that many other sources will say you *should* limit your list. I know a bride who found herself reluctantly adding someone to her wedding guest list because the 'rents invited them to the engagement party—and the guests clearly took it as an indicator they'd be invited to the wedding itself.

Being invited to *any* social event is a clue that the hosts think you're important, so you can't quite blame the E.P. guests for thinking it means something. And it doesn't help that nowadays, most people think of engagement parties as gift-giving occasions (regardless of what all the etiquette books say—which is "gifts firmly not required").

And just to make matters harder, usually an engagement party should take place pretty soon after the engagement itself, so you may not know how many guests you'll invite to the wedding. You just haven't gotten that far yet! And if your engagement is long, there may be people who are part of your life now (friends, etc.) who will fade out before the last months before the invite.

So, what do you think? Is it important to restrict that guest list? Or can you have a big engagement party, and still get away with not inviting all of those people to the wedding?

Expert Advice: Anna Bond of Rifle Paper Co.

Posted by Britni Wood, Associate Style Editor

from top: logo for Anna's store, custom invitation suite, Anna and her darling husband on their wedding day 

I'm thrilled to introduce Anna Bond from Rifle Design and new store Rifle Paper Co. as our Style Expert this week. Anna's work has graced the pages of Martha Stewart Weddings and can be seen in our Fall issue on newsstands now. I dare you to look at her gorgeous style without a smile on your face. She has the most whimsical and lighthearted approach to wedding invitations, so I thought, what better than to get to know what inspires her than to interview her right here on the Bride's Guide.

Britni Wood: Where did you get your start as an invitation designer?

Anna Bond: I studied graphic design in college and worked as both an art director and freelance designer/illustrator before I began designing stationery. After designing wedding invitation sets for a couple of close friends, I quickly began to realize how much I loved it and decided to focus on it as my business.

BW: What are the artistic influences and inspirations that have informed your design aesthetic?

AB: It seems like there are too many to list! I love sifting through all sorts of things to find inspiration such as mid century design & architecture, vintage children's books, South American folk art, and so on. I love illustrations by Marc Boutavant, Matte Stephens, and Mary Blair, all of which have a very nostalgic quality to them.

BW: I know you were married recently—congratulations! Has going through the process of planning your own wedding changed how you work with your brides? What words of advice would you give to brides about designing a custom stationery suite for their own weddings?

AB: I actually hadn't done too many stationery sets before I got married, but I'm glad that I got to experience being a bride before working with so many. I feel I can relate to the wedding process better and not only understand the importance of the day but the stresses that a bride can feel. 

My advice to brides who want custom suites is to not be shy about sharing their photos, personal stories, likes and dislikes. This is one of the most important steps in the design process, and communicating what you want in the beginning helps the designer and bride be on the same page throughout the project. I love hearing as much as I can about each couple. Not only is it fun to hear, but I want to find out enough to be inspired by each couple so I create something uniquely "them."

BW: Can you share with us some of the crazy requests you’ve received the last few years?

AB: I wish I had a crazy story, but I've been very fortunate to have worked with wonderful brides who are are incredibly easy to work with. The craziest deadline I've had was probably my own wedding with its 4-month-long engagement. 

BW: Tell us about your new great store!

AB: I'm so excited about it! It's been a long time coming and has been put on hold throughout the year while I've focused on my custom invitations. I'm set to launch next week on Monday the 23rd. The store will feature personalized wedding invitation templates, stationery, miscellaneous paper goods, art prints, and children's paper goods. I'll be adding more products throughout the year, but the main focus of the shop is the line of invitation templates. The designs are all illustrated and will feature lots of customizable options at a more affordable rate than my custom work—perfect for brides on a budget!

Etiquette: How Many Showers?

Posted by Talley Sue Hohlfeld, Etiquette Expert

Of all the satellite social events that twirl around the wedding itself, the bridal shower is the best known. And normally, there's only one. But there can be more than one—as long as the guest lists are substantially different. (It's okay if a couple of the guests are invited to more than one; they can decide which shower is the one they want to attend. If they come to them all, they bring a gift only to the first one.)

I had 5, in all—do you believe it? I don't, sometimes, but it's true:

• the "memory shower in a box" for the aunts and cousins of my own far-flung family, organized by my best friend;

• the huge family household shower for my in-laws' side of the family;

• the girlfriends lingerie shower that my roommate offered to host;

• the work shower arranged by my coworkers in the trenches;

• the hometown linens shower that my mom's best friend held for all the ladies I'd babysat for or gone to church with.

To me, it felt like a LOT of showers, but to each of those attendees, it was the only one.

There are many circumstances that create a perfect opening for multiple showers—non-overlapping social circles, families split by geography, etc. (I think I hit every one of them!). And when the offers for the shower spring from the generosity of other people, there's no reason to decline.

How many showers will you have?

Etiquette: Timing the Post-Destination Reception

Posted by Talley Sue Hohlfeld, Etiquette Expert

So many of the brides we speak to who are planning destination weddings are also planning a big party at home when they get back. Sometimes it's a big, formal affair; most times it's something a *little* bit smaller and more casual. They want an opportunity to actually celebrate with those loved ones:

a) who weren't able to attend the Hawaii event for schedule or monetary reasons;

and

b) whom they didn't invite to the far-away ceremony because they feared it would be an imposition (invitations to the ceremony itself are often viewed by guests as a "trigger" for buying the couple a gift; and some people feel obligated to make great efforts to attend weddings).

When should they have this secondary event?

There aren't a lot of official sources with answers. (Though Emily Post firmly points out that this should not be considered to be "the wedding reception")

Here's my own vote: within 3 months. Honestly a quarter of a year is enough time for other people to be excited about your wedding (and remember that we've been hearing about it beforehand, too). Us guests want to celebrate while things are still fizzy. So, the sooner, the better. It's hard to recreate the excitement. 

Are you planning such a party? When will you hold it—and what influenced your schedule?

If you're not having a destination wedding, what advice would you have about this for a bride who is?

Etiquette: What Not to Say About Your Destination Wedding

Posted by Talley Sue Hohlfeld, Etiquette Expert

When we were planning our special "destination weddings and honeymoons" issue, I went off to read message boards and advice columns, looking for comments by wedding *guests* that might reveal some etiquette pitfalls that I could warn brides and grooms about.

Not every guest is enthusiastic about a destination wedding. They're universally enthusiastic about the *couple*; but they aren't all excited about being invited to travel miles away to an apparently whimsically chosen place. I came away with a short list of three things the couple should never say to their guests about their decision to wed away.

1. It'll be great! Everyone can make it into a vacation!

It's true that destination resorts are reporting that some guests and family members are arriving early and staying on to enjoy themselves in that locale. But other people don't really want *you* to pick their vacation location, nor to dictate what they do with a good chunk of the time on their vacation (welcome brunch, rehearsal dinner, send-off breakfast). Let alone determine who they will spend it with.

So be careful not to assume that the "vacation option" has a universal appeal. If people decide this is an option for them, that's a bonus.

2. We're getting married there because it's so much less expensive.

It may be less expensive in another region to have the elaborate event you want. But if the end result is that your *guests* are spending more to travel, you may leave the impression that you're happy to save money at their expense.   

Be especially careful if part of your pricing structure is that the resort is giving the two of you a complimentary room in exchange for holding your event there. Don't let *any* hint of that "sales commission" leak out—unless it's accompanied by the news that you're using this free lodging for Grandma.

3. We've having a destination wedding because we can have a smaller event.

The fact is, you can have a small wedding at home. This statement can leave the family and friends who weren't invited (but thought they might have been, had it been local) thinking, "Did they spend so much money just to avoid having to invite me?"

And the guests who *were* invited but declined for monetary reasons—and who suspect you realize that they couldn't afford the trip—may feel that you've sneakily dumped the responsibility for keeping them off the final guest list onto their *own* shoulders. Maybe you didn't really want them there anyway.

Many of those statements may actually be true. But you don't want anyone to know these parts of your internal decision-making process—not if it could hurt their feelings.

So what *is* an "acceptable reason" to have your wedding in a far-away place? My vote is for this one:

"Because this place is so meaningful to us."

Have people asked you why you chose the location for your destination wedding? What are you telling them?

Etiquette: Can You Invite Some Children But Not All?

Posted by Talley Sue Hohlfeld, Etiquette Expert

Sometimes couples wish they could invite some children to their wedding, but not others.

That's incredibly risky. Because the advice they are given—which their guests are hearing, too—says "If you invite one child, you have to invite them all."

But I honestly think there's a case to be made for inviting children under their *own* auspices--you invite them because of their actual relationship to you. So, not coworkers' kids, but yes nieces and nephews. Yes to first cousins, no matter what their age, but no to first-cousins-once-removed, no matter how old—or young—they are. (However, you can absolutely not exclude your bratty niece, but include the well-behaved child of your best friend.)

The trickier part is when you're closer to your buddy's child than, say, your cousin's child. You don't want to hurt anyone's feelings . And remember, they're hearing that "all kids or no kids" advice as well. 

Do you think there is room in etiquette for this sort of approach? Do you wish you could some kids, but not all of them?

Etiquette: It's the Groom's Wedding, Too, Right?

Posted by Talley Sue Hohlfeld, Etiquette Expert

I just got a note from a reader via our AskMartha e-mail box asking how she can do something special for her groom. (He does sound pretty wonderful, too; he goes out of his way to make her feel special, and to take on her problems as though they were his.) She wrote, "Help me to make this 'our' special day, not a day devoted to me alone."

The bride does get pretty fussed over. She gets the spotlight-grabbing dress; he wears the background-inducing formalwear. In the stereotypical wedding, she makes the grand entrance, while he discreetly enters from the side. Classic toasts include toasts to the bride—but not to the groom.

Etiquette allows women to propose toasts now; that might be my suggestion. Although my husband seems to think I've rewarded him for his care and generosity just by marrying him!

She's got several months of planning--her wedding isn't until Spring 2010. Got any ideas for her?

Giving the Bride Away? Speak for Yourself!

Posted by Talley Sue Hohlfeld, Etiquette Expert

I was reading through a couple of the etiquette books I have and ran across a mention of an oft-disregarded rule about the ritual of giving the bride away. 

(Please note: I make a strict distinction between "escorting the bride down the aisle" and "giving her away." Though in the past they often took place in a guaranteed sequence, being escorted down the aisle by someone is not the same as having the officiant ask the question, "Who gives this woman into marriage?")

It's quite common lately for the bride and even the groom to be "given into marriage" by both parents, instead of just her father. In those cases, both parents stand and answer that question. But what I'm hearing from brides is that their parents say, "We do."

I just discovered that this an etiquette violation, according to Miss Manners. And it makes sense, if you think about it. Etiquette is pretty legalistic in its approach to these sorts of things--you must never sign the thank-you card with your husband's name as well as your own; a signature is sort of binding, and he is the only person allowed to sign his name. Ditto Christmas cards and newsy letters.

So of course etiquette would say that you cannot speak for someone else, either. Your father should say, not "We do," but "I do" (and ditto your mother). There was a custom for the father to say, "Her mother and I" in answer to that question, which fit the "George and I love the coffee pot" approach to a thank-you note.

But if the mother is there, she can certainly speak for herself. And so if she will speak, each uses the single pronoun. They will speak at the same time--there is their unity.

Have you decided whether to use the "giving away" custom? Why or why not?

If You're Paying for Attendants' Lodgings and Travel, Can That Be Their Gift?

Posted by Talley Sue Hohlfeld, Etiquette Expert

Over on our Reader Message Boards, that was one bride's question. She and her fiancé are having a destination wedding, and they've paid for the airfare and lodging for their attendants. She'd like to have that be their gift—but is that acceptable, she wonders? After all, it's a lot of money, and therefore a pretty valuable gift!

All the etiquette books list "paying for attendants' lodging" as a responsibility of either the bride or groom (depending on whom the attendant is standing up with, of course). But this is so seldom practiced that I would venture to say that this truly is a gift, not an obligation, on their part. And the airfare is never the responsibility of the bride and groom, no matter where the wedding is held.

So she's right—that's a pretty valuable thing she is giving them. But does it "qualify" as a gift?

My own vote: Yes, but.

Yes, it's a gift, but there's an aura of "I am benefiting from this money I'm spending on you" that makes me say, "Give them something small as well, something that's clearly just for them."

How small? Try something as inexpensive as a letter expressing how much their friendship means. Or a $7 travel pillow for the plane. Or a packet of stationery. 

What do you think?

Help! I want to "unbridesmaid" my friend...

Posted by Talley Sue Hohlfeld, Etiquette Expert (and Cara Sullivan, too!)

On Monday, October 12, an interesting question popped up on my etiquette post:

"I am in a pickle and would love your advice! I got engaged in January and our wedding is next August (2010). In the excitement of everything I asked a few girl friends I felt particularly close to at the time. I am realizing now that one of the friends, while I am close to her, drops down into a new tier of friends and I'm now worried that I need to include more friends, so no one's feelings get hurt.

"Other than my sister, I've never really labeled any friends as my "best friend" and I now feel like all eyes are watching who my bridesmaids will be--not to mention it seems like a very public statement about who I consider a close friend. I wouldn't mind having all my girl friends be in the bridal party were it not for cost and the drama some of them tend to bring into things. Would it be tacky to de-ask a friend of mine? What do I do about the other friends I am close to, but just don't want to be a bridesmaid? Thanks so much!"

Great question, right? Well, Cara and I both have pretty strong opinions about this (surprise, surprise!), so we decided to team up for a joint post.